Tuesday, June 16, 2009


Vi har en sag i Danmark lige nu som jeg er meget forvirret om. En flygtning er et menneske som forlod hans hjemland fordi det var en farlig sted. Han har fået tilladelse at bo i et nyt land siden hans hjemland er ikke ufarlig. Jeg er glad at vi har regler i verden som tillader mennesker at flytter at lave et nyt liv i et sikkert land.

We have an issue in Denmark right now about which I am very confused. A refugee is defined as a person who left his home country because it was a dangerous place. He has received permission to live in a new country since his home is unsafe. I am so glad we have rules in the world that allow people to move in order to make a new life in a safe country.

For nylig har den danske immigration har lært at mange irakiske flygtninger i Danmark har rejst frem og tilbage til Irak siden de fik tilladelse at bo i Danmark. Nu må regeringen bestemme hvis flygtninger kan blive i Danmark eller hvis deres tilladelse tilbagekaldte.

Recently Danish Immigration has learned that many of the Iraqui refugees in Denmark have been traveling back and forth to Iraq since they received their permission to stay and live here. Now, the government must decide if the refugees can remain in Denmark or if their permission will be revoked.

Hvad synes du? Jeg er en "sort og hvid" person når jeg tænker på ting ligesom dette så jeg tror fuldstændig at hvis dit hjemland er sikkert nok for du at rejse frem og tilbage, er det sikkert nok for du at bo der. Efter min mening, gør mennesker ligesom denne immigration-lov mere svært for resten af os. Vi har så mange regler at følger angående vores immigration... og jeg tror at reglerne skulle være for alle.

What do you think? I am usually a black and white person when I think about this like this, so I completely believe that if your home country is safe enough for you to travel back and forth, it is safe enough for you to live there. In my opinion people like this are making the immigration laws for the rest of us much more difficult. We have so many rules to follow concerning our immigration... and I believe that the rules should apply to everyone.


kelly said...

Did they really fly back and forth? My understanding was that they had been living in a refugee camp for eight years.

I personally think that if you let someone in *only as long as their country is unsafe* then you must wait for a report by the UN or whoever declaring it safe and not any other way of deciding it (such as if people visiting it).

Also, they definitely were not lying about it being unsafe eight years ago. Perhaps they feel safer in Denmark or like the culture or the language; or want to belong here? In which case, surely they should always have a home here?

BABS said...

People naturally gravitate towards loopholes. All of us take to the max what we can do as people who are not citizens here.

All i can say that whatever laws that are in place should take into account the number of years spent here, especially in the case of families with children.

If they want to stay, why not let them stay? There isn't a huge number of people involved.

If they want to stay it's saying something good about denmark. I cannot count how many foreigners have come here and left within five years of their own volition because they find the place so dire. That someone loves it so much and wants to stay - this is a good sign, surely? And i don't buy the DFP line about how they want to stay to sap the resources, I know more Danish people sucking the kommune dry with free handouts than i know foreigners. Danish people also take welfare and retirement and sick pay.

Having been a refugee of sorts when i first came here, i had to take several trips back to the place I had fled from before i could settle.

Who says that we cannot go back to a place that cannot home us now but once did?

Who says that isn't part of the settling process?

Just as psychological research has shown that children of two languages need to know their mother tongue inside out to be balanced, so the lands we have left still need to be familiar in some way.

'Refugees' often keep in touch with the people they left behind, maybe they visit the people they left behind who couldn't get out or who didn't want to.

During the second world war in England a woman was bombed out of her home. Another woman stayed in her home after it was bombed in the ruins, Another woman returned to the ruins and picked over the ashes and went home again to a new place. Think of these people being from a different 'background'-don't they then deserve basic rights and consideration?

If you would meet these people, the Iraqi's in question (and it isn't a huge group) I am absolutely convinced that you would find it hard to agree to send any of them home.

It is time the press stopped finding reasons to send them home and look at the reasons these people want to stay.

We are all here for different reasons, some can claim love, some can claim work, and a good proportion of us can claim we came here to escape a situation or in the hope of a better life.

The politics here are such that if we can be ousted we will be ousted, and what bad luck to be an Iraqi asylum seeker on the ousted list right now, especially if you are an Iraqi child who only speaks Danish and who has only been educated to live within the Danish system.

It is such a small number of people, and some of them have been here for so long, I can only come to the conclusion they are being chucked out as an example.

I think rules are meant to be stretched. And that each person should be taken as they come, and that compassion should rule, even if that means that generally there is a lot less to share around. Denmark is a rich country, the inhabitants are glowing with over nourishment and good health. We have enough to go around.

It is purely greed and selfishness that is motivating the expulsion of settled or settling families here. We, (as Danes) apparently don't want to share. We want to keep everything nice for ourselves but we don't want to share.

This is the opposite to what i teach children.

I don't believe that the immigrants traveling back and forth to the countries they choose to leave makes a mockery of any system, I believe it may have been necessary for their state of mind to do that.

Most foreigners living here take between 2 and numerous trips 'home' a year, and still manage to be reasonably integrated here. Why should some immigrated groups have less right than others to go back to the place their grandparents are buried?

Refugees are treated like leeches here, and it is a crying shame and a disgrace.

LOL, Kelli, you did ask...do excuse my passion!

United Studies said...

I completely agree! If they are not scared to travel back for vacations and whatnot, then I guess the place is safe enough to live in! Seems they just want the best of both worlds...

Fuzzy said...

I wholeheartedly agree with Babs. Denmark was swift to assist GW with his bogus war and try to reap the benefits/appease the DFP. Just seems fair that the participants help out a little to pick up the broken pieces.

Anonymous said...

@kel: Those who are flying back and forth are the ones who are already holding residence permit in DK.

Those who are kept in the refugee camp (Sandholmlejren) stay in the camp. Sometimes they stay there until 10 years, big family in one room and all (saw documentaries about it) and not allowed to work.

My personal opinion is that Denmark should make a decision and stick to it. If they want to help Iraqi refugees in the first place (as a part of the agreement since they joined US in Iraq war), then stick to it. Don't say "Oops, we changed our mind, now you all get the hell out from the country"

I just don't like those people working in the Immigration Office / Ministry of Integration. They think they can treat foreigners like crap.

Anonymous said...

Excellent answer Babs! My sentiments exactly. Borders, and the countries they define are a very new phenomenon seen in the light of human history. I'm starting to think that they're downright evil.

Paula said...

Sorry Kelli, Im with Babs on this one.

LadyFi said...

I totally agree with Babs! Well said.

Just imagine - forced to flee your country.. of course, you would want to go back and visit if you could.

Throwing out refugees who have been in Denmark for years and years, with kids at school, and roots and friends is just plain nasty.

MoMo 2.0 said...

It is really good to hear all these perspectives because all I am hearing are the news reports....
things like they have 2 passports (one DK and Iraq) and they are cheating the system so that they can go back and forth without getting the passport stamped...cheating the system. I know the media always focuses on the worse case scenarios so it tends to color our view.

However, again, as a black and white person when it comes to law, I just see it as "they are breaking the law/rules.... they should have a penalty".... I admit that I do have that Texas mindset when it comes to judgment/law/punishment.
but I am glad Babs talked about the kids of those adults making these decisions. I never looked at that angle and it does help me to see the bigger picture.

I rarely post "issues" on here...not really what my blog is for, but this time I am glad I did so I could receive a little more education! :o)

June said...

Hey Kelli, sorry I have to differ with you.:) I am a little grey in these matters. Resident card olders aside, lets only talk about refugees.They are humans, their land is dangerous. We all know there is a war in iraq. It does not make it any safer for them if the refugees *allegedly travel to iraq to perhaps meet their family, settle affairs of what was once their home etc.Perhaps they have ties which bind them to a country to make an occasional visit, but feel safer to live long term in DK.
What about love immigrants like us. We often travel back to our places of origin. Will they next tell us to live where we came from since we seem to travel there a lot and that we probably have more "attachment' to that place?

BABS said...

LOL, Kelli, I totally relate to that 'Texas mindset', can I have one of those even if I don't come from Texas?

I think you host a pretty good forum!

Anonymous said...

To put a little perspective on that "cheating the system" thing. I have two passports, so I can pick and choose. I'm sure there are some folks in the US that could get their panties in a bunch because I got a free 12 grade education in the states, and then applied it here. Likewise, I'm getting a free education here despite being born in America, and am free to leave, and use it elsewhere. I have produced two new Danes though, and that should count for something.

May I say, that I really appreciate how even though you are a black/white person, you have opened your mind to new thoughts on this? I think it's fab that you are open. We need more of that. Everywhere.